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March 02, 2011

Comments

Dean Wampler

If you change the last plot to log-log, it will probably be a straight line, demonstrating power law behavior.

I think this sort of analysis is very interesting, but it also risks becoming what Physicists might call "phenomenological", meaning it looks at the shape of a phenomenon without necessarily getting at the root source of the behavior.

I also feel that Agile has taken us too far from understanding the role of design thinking. TDD can lead to locally optimal designs, not globally optimal. I'm hopeful that the new emphasis on functional programming will rekindle interest in thinking about fundamental design questions and thereby drive us towards globally optimal designs. I don't anticipate a resurgence of OOD thinking. IMHO, the idea of reproducing your domain model in code was fundamentally misguided, as it was not really the "simplest thing that could possibly work".

Joel Tosi

What are your thoughts around the need for design chops as more and more patterns are already implemented for us in languages / frameworks? While I would say that those of us with >10 years experience know proper patterns and designs, I would also say that newer developers don't worry about it as much - they just see annotations or rails-gen that creates solid models to start from, without the developer needing to know why.

Thoughts?

Michael Feathers

@Dean - Yeah, will have to check out the log-log thing. I think that there's still value if it stays phenomenological. We may never know exactly why particular things happen - there are so many variables. But, I think that if we become versed in the patterns of our own code bases, we might be able to make better nudges toward particular goals.

I think that, too often, this sort of analysis has been mired in the desire to find the ultimate truths of software development, rather than just recognizing it as a fuzzy information source.

Michael Feathers

@Joel - I think that is a serious problem. My sense is that software development is successful economically because it is a way of delaying costs, but if your project lives long enough the costs catch up with you.

Frameworks are great, but the pattern seems to be that people just drop their code into framework defined bins rather than creating their own. It really is a trap. Many teams I've visited would be far better off if they'd done more factoring in the code they've written around the framework.

Kent Beck

@Dean As Isaac Asimov said, the most exciting phrase in science is not "Eureka!" but "that's odd...". These power law distributions are certainly odd, because they violate all advice about how to design but they keep emerging in all sorts of strange places (I've been studying them since Hayden Smith showed them on a poster at OOPSLA). Once we know they are there, we can begin to study why and what we can do to raise the slope of the power law line so there are relatively more simple things and the complexity (or whatever) of the most complex is much lower.

Michael Feathers

@Kent One thing I really want to understand is the hubbishness of certain classes, whether it is just really a function of human attention.

Olivierdemeijer

Many teams [...] would be far better off if they'd done more factoring in the code they've written around the framework.
Can't agree more, facing this problem every day.
@Joel Newer developers will probably agree too in a few years.

Keith

didn't you get the memo? The agile community got taken over by hippys.

The world of software design is found elsewhere...


Gregory

Algorithms are the new design. You don't really need design anymore when you can just talk about big Oh notation. Computational thinking has over taken craft.

Hans

"Remember the Open/Closed Principle? The notion that in a good design, we have many abstractions that don't change very often."

Maybe I missed your point, but isn't the fundamental notion of iterative/evolutionary development processes (e.g. TDD) that you can change your designs as your understanding of the problem changes? I'll admit that I'm not sure I've ever *really* understood the O/C Principle, but your message seems to be saying that if I change my mind about my design, that I may possibly violate the OCP. (Not that I'm too worried about that.)

Michael Feathers

@Hans I think it's best to look at the Open / Closed Principle as an emergent effect of making good design decisions. Sure, in evolutionary development you can and should change your design, but if you've developed very focused abstractions, changes are you you won't have to as often as you would if you had mangled several ideas together in one class, for example.

Avdi Grimm

Interesting times indeed. I take particular interest because when I worked at Devver, particularly on the "Caliper" project, we were trying hard to add a sense of project-historical context to developer's daily work. Maybe we were just a little ahead of our time.

Michael Feathers

@Advi - Great to hear from you. When I was in Boulder last week, Chad Fowler pointed Corey and I to Caliper's site. We looked at thought it would've been great had it survived.

Steve Freeman

You should also mention Keith Braithwaite's 'measure' which found a power law between the cumulative count of method complexity (or something like that) *for code that was associated with tests*. During one of his talks, I realised that this might be because some of us put a lot of effort into making our code readable, which brings it closer to the sort of word distribution associated with natural language. There's an old write up at https://www.m3p.co.uk/blog/2008/03/14/its-really-about-language/

Michael Feathers

@Steve Yes. I've had churn on my mind so much, I haven't been thinking about the complexity much.

Lawrence_white_

Great post. I'm also working on code mining (as part of my day job so I don't know if I'll be able to post much about it). I think it's ok to mention that we're also seeing power law behavior on commits in the projects we're looking at. Nice to see other people are working in the same area.

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